Been doing starting strength for several weeks and taking it slow but progressing steadily. My goals are to increase my overall strength with a specific goal of alleiviating lower back troubles through strength and mobility. Both the strength training and the stretching and mobility drills have really helped my back considerably, though squat depth is still somewhat tentative but increasing slowly as the days go on.
I have reached a point in the training where the loads I’m pushing are increasing my refinement of form and attention to detail. If you could give me a few pointers I would really appreciate it. The first thing I noticed was my hip drive. While it feels like I’m driving my hips up, it isn’t very pronounced in the video making me think I need to try to incorporate more movement in that area. This is still kind of a ballancing act for me so your observations will really help.
Lots going on with your squat. Really worth quite a discussion. Take a look at this vid and see if you can come up with two or three major differences between what you are doing and Keegan is doing..
Well I went back and watched the Squat portion of my Stating Strength DVD. It looks like my back angle is not consistent. Maybe tightening my stomach/core, and while I understand drive comes from the hip, maybe I’m not keeping my chest up. Also it’s hard to see with the plates in the way but it looks like a may not be keeping my head neutral. Looks like maybe as I lower, my head comes up.
Tomorrow’s a lift day so I’ll take some more video. Should I do a reset and drop the weight? While I don’t want to lose the strength gains I’ve made, I obviously won’t be able to continue increasing weight until I fix these problems. I think I’ll drop at least 10% and go from there.
GD, thanks for taking the time to look at this for me, I appreciate it.
Couple of things are critical. The first is your hips go almost straight down. The movement is very quad oriented. Watch how Keegan sits back into the lift. Gotta run more later.
Coda, here’s my thought without taking it too far away from where GD is going. I would like to see your air squat, like GD says: there are a lot of things going on. Send those hips back and down, and get below parallel. If your air squat shows you can do that, then lets start to load until you start to break form.
First I have to say my piece. If you want to be a beginning powerlifter and do not care about your fitness level then SS is a good fit. If on the other hand you are doing SS so that you can bring the strength you gain back into CF you are going about it bassackwards. We have literally shown this is an extremely inefficient method to accomplishing that goal. Case in point. Keegan’s squat is an American record, completed only four days after competing in the teen challenge at the CF games, which were completed only 4 days after running a 17:00 5K. That is the definition of fitness defined by CF.
A couple of things regarding back angle. First midline stability. Your hips are the movers, but the spine supports the load. Keegan’s spine is held rigid and the load maintains it position throughput the lift. Watch what happens to the load while you lift. First in regards to spinal integrity. Secondly, watch the position of the load. The load shifts from the center of your foot forward. This happens a lot with folks misinterpreting Rips squat cue to drive with the hips. Rip will allow someone to initially let their chest fall when they learn the hip drive, but this is not what he wants out of more mature lifters, or those who understand the hip drive. The back angle shouldn’t change.
Commonly the cue is chest up. In practice we haven’t seen that work well. Louie uses the cue shoulders into the bar. We have found arch into the bar the best cue. Your hips drive the movement but your shoulders need to lead the movement..
GD, thanks again for taking the time to respond. You make several good points, and if I’m going to be honest with myself, I’m not doing the SS program either or as Rip would say “YNDTP” My initial thoughts were exactly that; get stronger and come back to Crossfit. A couple months into this and I’ve found I’m not adhering to his principals either. I’m running 1 day a week, 1 mile. Hitting the bag 1 day a week with Bas Rutten and was trying to implement some intermitant fasting, basically I’m all over the board.
As to the lift. I can “see” what your saying in comparing the videos. The load is all over the place and I see what your saying about sitting back into the lift.
Time to get real here. I think that my decision to do SS was based on a desire to get stronger but also out of fear regarding my back , and doing high rep sets of “X”. Looking at the videos and your critique, I can see Any increase in weight or continuation in this form will lead to the same result. I did post my video on this site and not the SS forum without really putting thought into it but I think it’s a natural gravitation to where I want to be and with those who’s knowledge I trust. (Not that I don’t trust Mark, but I don’t know the other members on that board.
BiG D- A major reset is in order. Air squats- broom stick-empty bar squats. I really enjoy this lift and would like to be able to do them correctly. More videos and assesment on my part.
Again thanks to both of you for taking the time to help and also for helping me get focused on what I actually want out of this.
Coda you probably know this, I used to work for Rip. For all of his problems with CF I like him. I don’t appreciate his cantankerous griping about CF but that is for another post.
I would reset. I would also add in some supplementary work. Back ext, GHR, and principally heavy Good Mornings. Get in touch with you hamstrings and ass, find out what they are supposed to do for a living. Use the Good Mornings to lock in that hip and spine position.
Great suggestions and I think the supplementary work will work in great as a warm up/ cool down on some days. The fact that I really enjoy doing the Oly lifts but also have a goal towards my overall fitness does lead me back to Crossfit ultimately. Thanks again Jeff.
Great suggestions and I think the supplementary work will work in great as a warm up/ cool down on some days. The fact that I really enjoy doing the Oly lifts but also have a goal towards my overall fitness does lead me back to Crossfit ultimately. Thanks again Jeff.
You guys knew I was going to see this,Ok I watched the form , your knees are shooting forward your back is rounded and you show core weakness on recovery. Simplest fix Box squats. Its what I tell everyonee with Squat issues. I am a powerlifting coach ,So you know that right off, I don’t always agree with everyone even though I respect them.The box squat is performed using a 12 inch wood box that is sturdy enough to handle your weight and the weight on the bar even if you fully sit on it. I train people to sit back and barely touch it. Then you recover to start position. You will use about a 30 inch stance with toes pointed slightly outwards. The movement is started by sitting back like into a a chair. You will be flairing out in the knees and extending your Butt backwards. you should practice this movement much like an air squat until you get comfortable. This form requires you starting with the bar and developing hip glute quad strength . I will restate I am a powerlifting coach who trains people to do heavy 1 rep max. So I’m not Crossfit PC most of the time. If you would like to see an example look for Olypowergals Avitar in the blog the weight is 365 lbs in the shot. Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Good luck
and Dandruff You have to remember I’m not an Erudite Instructor of spasmodic kinetic helter skelter as most Crossfitt trainers . I only do simple lifts that require little to no imagination.There fore, Ugh me lift heavy things. Please pass the Beer and Pizza
Olypower guy, thanks. Funny that just night I was watching a youtube video (linked from this forum I think) with some big ‘ol dudes doing these box squats, Was wondering what the deal was with them. Started up Crossfit again today and worked in GHR and Good mornings (along with other things) for my warm up as per GD’s suggestion. I’m going to need to be very careful here and be smart about this. GD you comment about doing SS as a way to strengthen before returning to CF being a bass ackwards way of doing things is noted and appreciated. I am looking for “Fitness” and not just power lifting, though I really enjoyed the SS program.
My over riding concern is keeping my back healthy. Over the last couple years I’ve had some instances where I could barely get out of bed and go to work. My mobility excercises, stretching and regular visits to my chiropractor seem to have alieviate most of the issues, but there are still mobility issues but not serious. The good mornings I did this morning expressed that quite well (though I think they are a great benefit to my goals here.) The oly lifting/SS program I started in June was my way of trying to get back to a level of strength to allow me to do Crossfit again near the level I was doing a couple of years ago, which wasn’t all that great, but I was really making gains at the time and had shed a lot of fat and increased strength. I’m very glad I posted that check video here, as it has not only helped me rethink my stratedgy but also being at a forum I’m comfortable with and benefiting from kindness from guys like you that help a lot of people on your own accord without benefit. Thanks.
Olypower guy, I think you hit the nail on the head with the weak core. I think the weight I was lifting there was about the most I was going to get at 3X5 without correcting really bad form and limited mobility. I look forward to doing box squats, CFSB and added lifting days to WOD’s, but I need to eat the humble pie and realize that I have a ways to go before I can do that. I’d love to say that by the first of next year I’ll be able to add in a strength bias program but if I’m honest with my self, I need to get fit first. For now, scaling the wod’s, incorporating skill and mobility into warm up and cool downs and having fun are the goals. Ya, fun. Not being able to put on a sock without grunting and heavy breathing while lying on your side sucks, or grimacing in pain as you hold your sons bike seat the first day the training wheels come off sucks. Being able to (mostly) do a GHR, run a mile and some sit ups is Fun!
Thank you both for your replies and helping out with this. This is why I love Brand X and the people here.
Like the other old guy’s said Box Squats cure cancer! I still think you need to work on your air squat. You seem to initiate your squat with your knees. The squat is initiated by your hips, all squats! if box squats helps you do this, then do it, but I would not use any weight. Send more video.
Olypower guy, thanks. Funny that just night I was watching a youtube video (linked from this forum I think) with some big ‘ol dudes doing these box squats, Was wondering what the deal was with them. Started up Crossfit again today and worked in GHR and Good mornings (along with other things) for my warm up as per GD’s suggestion. I’m going to need to be very careful here and be smart about this. GD you comment about doing SS as a way to strengthen before returning to CF being a bass ackwards way of doing things is noted and appreciated. I am looking for “Fitness” and not just power lifting, though I really enjoyed the SS program.
My over riding concern is keeping my back healthy. Over the last couple years I’ve had some instances where I could barely get out of bed and go to work. My mobility excercises, stretching and regular visits to my chiropractor seem to have alieviate most of the issues, but there are still mobility issues but not serious. The good mornings I did this morning expressed that quite well (though I think they are a great benefit to my goals here.) The oly lifting/SS program I started in June was my way of trying to get back to a level of strength to allow me to do Crossfit again near the level I was doing a couple of years ago, which wasn’t all that great, but I was really making gains at the time and had shed a lot of fat and increased strength. I’m very glad I posted that check video here, as it has not only helped me rethink my stratedgy but also being at a forum I’m comfortable with and benefiting from kindness from guys like you that help a lot of people on your own accord without benefit. Thanks.
Olypower guy, I think you hit the nail on the head with the weak core. I think the weight I was lifting there was about the most I was going to get at 3X5 without correcting really bad form and limited mobility. I look forward to doing box squats, CFSB and added lifting days to WOD’s, but I need to eat the humble pie and realize that I have a ways to go before I can do that. I’d love to say that by the first of next year I’ll be able to add in a strength bias program but if I’m honest with my self, I need to get fit first. For now, scaling the wod’s, incorporating skill and mobility into warm up and cool downs and having fun are the goals. Ya, fun. Not being able to put on a sock without grunting and heavy breathing while lying on your side sucks, or grimacing in pain as you hold your sons bike seat the first day the training wheels come off sucks. Being able to (mostly) do a GHR, run a mile and some sit ups is Fun!
Thank you both for your replies and helping out with this. This is why I love Brand X and the people here.
Hi again Coda vex, the only reason I prescribe Box Squats so much is because it is a simplistic movement that allows people to self evaluate. It is so straight forward that iit does not require alot of thought . You sit back touch it and recover while video taping your form. Stop review and go again.Gard dawg is giving good Advice also He’s just more technical in his explanations . I like to use this because it usually produces immediate results. If you have back issues then start with broom handle. I like using a piece of 1’’ x 60’’ rigid electrical cconduit myself. It works good for OHS squat movements which can also be performed on the Box.I wish you well on what ever training you choose to utilize.
You have to remember I’m not an Erudite Instructor of spasmodic kinetic helter skelter as most Crossfitt trainers 
. I only do simple lifts that require little to no imagination.There fore, Ugh me lift heavy things. 
Please pass the Beer and Pizza 