Bigger Bear
Posted: 28 December 2005 02:29 AM   [ Ignore ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  12536
Joined  2004-06-18

There is a great article on CF Easts site.  I have copied the text.  The link is here:
http://www.ccijax.com/action/index.php/fitness/pop-up-extended/be_ye_predator_or_be_ye_prey/

I have just finished attending the conference of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET).  Though not many seemed to know it, it was here in Jacksonville, during the week of January, Third.  Many nationally known writers, and instructors were in town to present programs. 
I spent much more time assisting other firearms instructors, or presenting my three classes, than attending, but I did sit in a session by a retired Alaskan Trooper, Jeff Hall.  Jeff is now an adjunct for the NRA.  His presentation was fantastic, and it gave me a fresh and dynamic view of training for my brother and sister officers to win deadly confrontations.  I credit any original ideas expressed here, to Jeff, but on many points I was already in concert with his viewpoint.

One of Jeff’s major points was a need for revision on our winning priorities in combat situations.  We viewed several videos that I routinely use to teach.  His perspective has given me a renewed interest in draining the shallow end of the gene pool.  Mr. Hall is concerned that the trainer’s constant mantra of seeking cover has caused many officers to lose, or suffer injury when they should have pressed the fight and won.  He pointed out that the slowest bullet around, the 45, travels at about 850 feet per second.  He wisely insists that if you can not travel 851 feet per second, that you should attack rather than seek cover.  Things are obviously even more drastic with rifle rounds approaching or passing 3,000 feet per second.

The differences between predator and prey were examined in detail.  Probably no predator is more tactical than cats, he said.  His cats, when exposed to the outside, sniff the air, and scan for enemies before leaving cover.  They roll in the cat box to cammie up for their missions.  His analogy went into the cat’s bringing live mice into the house, releasing them and stalking them.  If the mouse faces the cat, it slinks around the rodent with keen interest, but is does not approach head on.  When the mouse runs, the cat pounces, grabs and shakes it, only to release and continue the game until the captor dies.

He used other animal analogies, like Police K9s, bears, and cougars.  All will chase down and take down prey trying to flee.  Unlike the trained police dog, the wild animals are usually deterred by a face to face confrontation, even with a human or other smaller animal.  He told of a brother who saved his sibling by charging a black bear with a handgun that would not have been up to the task of killing the beast.  He said the man had to make himself the “bigger bear.”

Most of you have seen the videos of the South Carolina Trooper, or Georgia Deputy killed in the line of duty.  In both cases, inferior adversaries prevailed because their attack was more vicious than the officers were able to comprehend.  In both cases, the officers tried to disengage, create distance, and seek cover.  In both cases, the officers would have been more likely to survive had they pressed the attack, and become the “bigger bear.”

I submit to you, that if you unleash the “bigger bear” in you, that you are more likely to prevail in a deadly confrontation.  Our aggression must be controlled, so unlike the criminal predator, we can not arbitrarily execute the suspect as they did Officers Coates, and Dinkweiller.  We can however press the attack as reasonably necessary to prevent bodily harm to us or another, or to protect anyone’s life, including our own.

During this attack to save your life and win the fight, you can not stop until the job is done, the suspect’s aggression has ended, and the threat to your life has ended.  One shot is almost never enough.  Remember Platt in the FBI, Miami Shootout.  He received fatal wounds in the initial contact, but was still able to fix 7-8 FBI Agents in place and aggress into the front line of agents, killing and wound all who hunkered down behind the closest cars.

In future articles and training we will examine shot placement and its roll in winning.  Center of mass may not be the best option for face to face, life and death battles.  Until then, start a regimen of clearing and verifying you firearms and making ten smooth and fast draws each day, work or not.  It will help you pass the first half of 2005 qualifier, but may well save your life.  Two good hits early in the gunfight can not hurt.  If that does not work 13 more and a reload should do the trick. 

I am in no way advocating that you fill the neighborhood with lead.  Part two to practice, program, requires your shots hit their mark.  Many recent attacks on police were in the face of great odds in our favor, like the North Hollywood shootout.  Remember the controlled part of our aggression.  Bad guys are not required to control theirs.  They have already rejected the constraints of society.

If you are already behind cover when the fight starts, don’t leave it.  If you have no cover or it is not immediately adjacent to you, shoot and move, and repeat like shampooing.
Until next time, start drawing, be the “bigger bear,” and reserve your place at the fireside with your grandchildren.

Sarge

 Signature 

All of life’s problems can be solved by heavy deadlifts.

M/52/5’11”/165

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 December 2005 05:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5196
Joined  2004-06-22

Kravish in attitude. Good thoughts TJ. Thank you for the advice, even to those of us only likely to encounter a regular situation without weapons, the mindset is there.

 Signature 

“No man who refuses to bear arms in defense of his nation can give a sound reason why he should be allowed to live in a free country”  T. Roosevelt

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not.”  Thomas Jefferson”

“History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid” - Gen Eisenhower.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 December 2005 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2570
Joined  2005-10-27

Warning:Graphic content to follow.

A few thoughts come immediately to mind and I’m sure many more will follow.

There was a critical incident in this county in which a Sheriff’s deputy was killed. The perpetrator was eventually shot 30 times (if memory serves me right). Not gratuitous, he would not go down. When he finally was on the ground, deputies approached. No one was sure what the status of the perp was. And as they approached, he moved, in hindsight most likely due to a nerve impulse. Now remember, this man had already killed a fellow officer and no one was sure what his status was. So a deputy, thinking others are in danger, shot the man in the head. Thank God for a man who has the courage to do so.

What do you think happened to this man? An award? No, he’s currently retired due to stress. Why? They tried to charge him with murder!

Who decided the lives of those who “have already rejected the constraints of society” are more important than those who risk their lives to maintain the constraints of society? Who decided that he/she has more of a right to be at home tonight with their family than my husband or any other who dons that uniform?

My husband recently attended a supervisor’s training course in which a video was shown of an officer being shot. What was his crime? He took too much time informing his killer of his need to comply. He was so concerned about liability issues that he took the time to tell the killer, “I’m in fear for my life. I fear I may sustain bodily harm.” This is on tape in the officer’s car! What the hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t believe a badge gives a man or woman carte blanche. But I do believe there should be a reasonable belief that one can act on their own behalf, in the interest of personal safety, without fear of undo scrutiny, scorn or even endictment. The day the officer breaks the law, feel free to disregard their rights. Until then, they need to be able to expect and receive our gratitude and support.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 December 2005 10:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Pack Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  166
Joined  2005-03-07

Hello everyone,
                I have never owned a gun nor ever thought i would.
Due to the ever escalating levels of residencial crime i have discussed gun training and ownership with my wife and 14 y/o daughter.

After a series of conversations and light prodding LOL  they have both decided it would be a good idea to learn firearm safety. Does any one here at BRANDX have any suggestions as to where to attend classes taught by people that are truly interested in helping others to learn how to shoot and the safety aspects that coincide.

Also any comments on the type of firearm that my girls would best be suited for :?:
                                    Thank You

 Signature 

Praise be to the LORD my rock, who trains my fingers for battle, my hands for war.
Psalm 144:1

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Mutt
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  46
Joined  2005-04-17

I have herd good things about American Shooting Center’s beginning firearms class. 

I will also PM you with some contact info for people more qualified to answer your questions than myself.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 02:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5196
Joined  2004-06-22

MattFureyPupil I will ask around and fwd any info to you.

Irish
Good post. My thoughts are very very similar.
I have always believed that one who disregards the rights/lives of others has in that instant forfeited their own rights/life. If you act inhumanely, you have no human rights.
Prosecution of Law Enforcement for courageously doing the job we want them to do is sickening.

 Signature 

“No man who refuses to bear arms in defense of his nation can give a sound reason why he should be allowed to live in a free country”  T. Roosevelt

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not.”  Thomas Jefferson”

“History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid” - Gen Eisenhower.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Pack Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  160
Joined  2004-08-10

While I will agree in the need to be aggressive when confronted with an unarmed individual leaving you (or your loved ones) no room for escape,  in the context of this text when facing an assailant armed with a firearm I disagree almost entirely with this authors stance and even the examples he uses to justifiy his points.  I feel you are almost always better seeking cover from an individuale armed with a firearm, a few exceptions might be when you are within lunging distance and a disarm technique is available and the circumstances warrant the attempt or when a position of cover is not readily available.  A round fired from a weapon will still move at 851 feet per second whether coming at you while you are moving for cover or moving at the individual in an attack mode, the difference being you are not necessarily moving closer to the subject (obviously making you an easier target), and moving behind cover makes the chance of a second or third round much less likely too cause damage.  The auther used as justification for his argument shooting incidents in which law enforcement officers were killed while facing “inferior adversaries”  while I am admittedly not familiar with the South Cariolina trooper incident I am very familiair with the Georgia Deputy incident.  In this incident the deputy was faced with a mentally unstable Viet Nam veteran with combat experience hardly what I would call “inferior”.  In the incident the deputy’s death while tragic was almost entirely caused by his inaction and lack of firearm proficiency not his decision to move to a position of cover.  The deputy did nothing while allowing the suspect to load an AK47 and then when he finally deciding to act (only after being fired upon)  he hit the suspect whith only a glancing round after firing over a dozen rounds from within a 10 to 20 feet distance while the suspect was able to advance on the deputy (utilizing cover by the way) and score several fatal hits.  He also mentions the FBI shootout in Miami which has probably been dissected by law enforcement more then any other shooting and their are several lessons that came out of it.  Again the agents firearm proficiency and evan the calibre of their weapons was an issue. The agents fired copius amount of rounds at Platt without putting him down (missing him from a close distance), I suppose you can learn from the bigger bear in Platt who never stopped fighting, but also the agents failed to move from their position of cover when it was no longer cover because of the advancing Platt.

I do not mean to take away from the message that it is important to use your bigger bear and be aggressive in the fight when it is required but I think their are inherent dangers especially when faced with someone armed with a fiream. 

I feel it is important to think these options through ahead of time and to remember to have a plan and to discuss this plan with your family.  When thinking about this plan it is important to think of all scenarios ie; are you alone or with your family, is cover readily available, your mindset, your level of experience and training, when was the last time you practiced a gun disarm, or do you even know a proper gun disarm or any weapon defense for that matter (see your local Krav instructer they will be more then willing to help).

P.S. to MFP and others see me and I will be more then happy to discuss firearm ownership and training with you

 Signature 

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  12536
Joined  2004-06-18

Are you thinking he is saying don’t take cover or don’t use cover?

 Signature 

All of life’s problems can be solved by heavy deadlifts.

M/52/5’11”/165

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7680
Joined  2004-08-09

The artical definitely takes a Krav like POV.

LL, seems like each situation has to be assessed and a decision made in a very short amount of time. I’m in no position to judge what an officer should or should not have done in an attack, and I leave that to members of Law Enforcement to dissect.

From a citizen’s point of view, sizing up the assailant and environment seems like the critical point, and ordinary people are just not trained for it. I imagine some perpetrators might be like a bear and charging them may take them off their predator stance and make them act more like prey. Some may not chase you down and shoot you if you happen to avoid the 851mph bullet. Some are intent on getting their prey, ie killing a police officer, or attacking people with the only intent to do violence.

A person who is defending only themselves might take what seems like the less aggressive stance thinking that charging escalates the attack. A person who is with others or has a protective role (LEO, parent, teacher etc, brother) might be more aggressive toward an attacker feeling that they will expose the ones they are with to danger, if the attacker isn’t neutralized.

The need is to decide and act so quickly. I hope I’m never in that position.

 Signature 

We have too many heroes lost and not enough workout days to commemorate them. I think it’s fitting to always think of the men and women in service, whether military or peace officers and public safety, as we do our workouts. A bit of motivation to throw a little of our sweat and maybe a drop of blood on the floor in their honor.

http://laurarcrossfit.blogspot.com

There is no substitute for good coaching.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2005 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Pack Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  166
Joined  2005-03-07

Alex,BBOJ,
              Thank you for your responses. I look forward to any help you can give. D.H. I have P.M.d you. Thank you all.
                                   
                                            :D

 Signature 

Praise be to the LORD my rock, who trains my fingers for battle, my hands for war.
Psalm 144:1

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 December 2005 04:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Pack Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  160
Joined  2004-08-10

He wisely insists that if you can not travel 851 feet per second, that you should attack rather than seek cover.

It is this quote I have the most problems with. I think starting out with an attack rather then first seeking cover (in most instances) is extremely dangerous.

 Signature 

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 December 2005 06:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  12536
Joined  2004-06-18

Ahhh…good point.  I was thinking first that the concept was a good one especially for KM.  Something we try to get across to people.  It seems like another way to say the pojnt.  I am not an expert with firearms and the article is obviuosly addressing armed conflict.  In reading it I agree with your point.  I wonder though if the point is that officers are drilled so hard to seek cover first that when they should start shooting they don’t.

 Signature 

All of life’s problems can be solved by heavy deadlifts.

M/52/5’11”/165

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 December 2005 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  942
Joined  2004-06-30

GD,

I don’t think that getting drilled about finding cover is the issue here.  The underlying issue in most of this incidents is the officers lack of preperation.  These officers hadn’t prepared themselves for the situation they found themselves in .  They were in a situation that required them to make a decision that they were not prepared to make.  In this instance, running for cover may have been their best option.  This is why Harry’s closing statement about planning is so important.

It is also why training is so important.  By doing so, you force yourself to be put in situations and work your way out of them.  Once you have experienced something it tends not to be so overwhelming the next time.  Your training is both physical and mental.  This should be undertaken by all “sheepdogs” as part of thier “sniffing the wind” routine.

 Signature 

He was just a man doing a job.  A job whose primary attribute was self-restraint and self-composure, not for his own sake, but for those whom he lead by example.  A job whose objective could be boiled down to the single understatement, as he did at the Hot Gates on the morning he died, of performing the commonplace under uncommonplace conditions. 

Description of Dienekes, a Spartan warrior at the Battle of Thermopylae

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 December 2005 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Pack Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  166
Joined  2005-03-07

I stumbled upon this article at bullshido.com. I think it has some pertanance to the subject matter being discussed here.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5klotzdec30,0,632360.story :idea:

 Signature 

Praise be to the LORD my rock, who trains my fingers for battle, my hands for war.
Psalm 144:1

Profile
 
 
   
 
 
‹‹ The J.P. Thread      a few more thoughts.... ››