Hhhmmm…ok enough hiding here on my part. I shouldn’t pipe up too much since I haven’t been to Krav for a while, but must come back due to work…
Here’s a thought that I am stealing from my Israeli military friends who do Krav at a wee bit different level then we do…
Sparring to them is full bore! No head strikes, no biting everything else goes. And they toss this in in all sorts of situations. As recently described in Aaron Cohen’s book ” Brotherhood of Warriors”. On the way to the training site in a bus, someone gets told to fight his way from the back to the front while everybody else’s job is to stop him. If he makes it to the front, there will be “extra curricular activities” for the rest…. No biting, no headblows, GO! No protective gear of any sorts.
Now this has it’s drawbacks (naturally) mainly the injury part as has been mentioned before, but the advantages they get out of it….Priceless!
I doubt we would get many takes on this “sparring” and their purpose is totally different, but I thought I would toss it out there.
SS this is the way the trainers would spar. Your right this training takes it"s toll, but its priceless. Unfortunately we can’t do this with the students. Oh how we would love to, we would not have a class. This is more advance when you are able to use a little bit of control. You should see when the Black Belts do a tech. line. They beat the crap out of each other. It’s really fun!
Love these threads. My basic rule is to spar to the level of my partner. If I’m working with someone less experienced than me (which is rare), I ease up on the power, slow down, and try to help them with recognizing the telegraphing that happens with nearly any strike, to allow them to build the muscle memory and OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) loop associated with, say, dealing with a rear leg kick. Feeling the contact (with just enough mustard on it to FEEL it, but not enough to end the session or get emotions running so high the learning points are missed and you begin trying to really tag each other) when you react wrong is just as important a learning point as getting it right every single time because the strike is coming slow and soft. If newer folks continually find themselves getting knocked silly without learning anything beyond “Sparring with SD hurts,” I haven’t done anything for either of us.
When sparring with people more experienced than I am, I just try to keep up with the pace, while keeping strikes at a level designed to get their attention without causing injury. I’m especially aware of head strikes and leg kicks, as it’s rare my opponent isn’t giving away at least 10 pounds, and I’ve seen enough boxing injuries that I really dislike the headgear and heavy gloves. I stay aware of leg kicks because of their inherent danger, miss by a couple of vertical inches due to bad aim from rushing or the opponent moving unexpectedly and you’ve got a serious injury situation.
When I spar with LD though, it’s all out. :twisted:
You should hit with enough power that your mechanics, timing, etc, are at “fighting speed,” but you should avoid hitting as hard as you can for the reason Gonzo gave, ie, injuries.
I tend to agree with this. The point of sparring is to learn, to build confidence, and to break bad habits. When my old Taekwondo coach used to see somebody forming a bad habit he used to tell us to hit hard enough to break the habit. You only need to hit hard enough to get the point across. Sometimes you get someone who can take being tagged and they start taking hits in order to get their shots in, so you hit them harder. Now if you have the proper equipment, training, and comparable skill levels then full-contact sparring is okay. Everyone should have to chance to go all out every once in a while so they can know what it is to be hit and what happens to their technique when they start throwing hard with adrenaline flowing in their veins.
Point sparring, or just sparring, teaches you speed, accuracy, and control. You should not be going full bore no matter if you use pads or not. Go in fast and do a light strike. You should not be throwing your strikes and kicks with penetration. In competition if you strike/kick to hard you will get a warning.
Also while sparring you want to make sure you do combo’s. mix em up but 3 is a good number and you’ll at least land one strike. You’ll come away with allot of clashes but in the end you will most likely win.
My Shidoshi was a full contact fighter and didn’t care for point sparring but entered the competitions anyway. He would place a hard snap kick to his opponents chest and take the warning. Messed with the other guys head to give him the advantage. He won allot that way.
Point sparring, or just sparring, teaches you speed, accuracy, and control. You should not be going full bore no matter if you use pads or not. Go in fast and do a light strike. You should not be throwing your strikes and kicks with penetration. In competition if you strike/kick to hard you will get a warning.
I have to disagree. The point of training and sparring in our school/system is to be able to defend your self against an attacker in the real world. It is a proven fact that in an adrenalin fueled situation your conscious will revert to what you have trained. If you have trained only light contact and to pull your punches, this is what you will do when you are scared. In full contact sparring we will go in as hard as we can in a controlled environment. It is also wise to train taking punches, kicks and exhausting yourself so you keep going in the fight.
Point sparring, or just sparring, teaches you speed, accuracy, and control. You should not be going full bore no matter if you use pads or not. Go in fast and do a light strike. You should not be throwing your strikes and kicks with penetration. In competition if you strike/kick to hard you will get a warning.
I have to disagree. The point of training and sparring in our school/system is to be able to defend your self against an attacker in the real world. It is a proven fact that in an adrenalin fueled situation your conscious will revert to what you have trained. If you have trained only light contact and to pull your punches, this is what you will do when you are scared. In full contact sparring we will go in as hard as we can in a controlled environment. It is also wise to train taking punches, kicks and exhausting yourself so you keep going in the fight.
I guess this is the difference between the systems. What you have described is what we call Pachivas Pancration or full contact fighting for my system. The point of sparring for us is to learn control, to learn speed. Not every strike/kick you throw in a fight, whether in the ring or on the streets, needs to be hard. I’‘l use a light kick to the leg or hip to open them up for a strike to the face or chest that will hurt, or reversed were I’m going to cause some serious pain with my kick. With out the sparring I do I wouldn’t learn as much control. Also in street application I have to assess the situation. I have to know myself and have that control so that when I am scared I’m not destroying my attacker. Subdue, yes. Kill, no. Of course there are hundreds of situations and all of them are different. That is why it is important to practice both. I don’t want to destroy a man that’s starving and holding me up to get money for his family cause he isn’t a threat, I’d end up helping that guy anyway. But you have the other extreme where they have a knife or a gun and have intent to do me or mine harm, well I’m going to put the hurt on them.
I totally agree though you need the full contact training. This is why I’m doing crossfit. To build my core and help me so I don’t run out of gas so soon for the full contact fighting.
What you have described is what we call Pachivas Pancration or full contact fighting for my system.
We just had two fighters compete in a Pancreation Tournament.
Not every strike/kick you throw in a fight, whether in the ring or on the streets, needs to be hard.
The ring ok, but the street? If you are attacked in the streets you better damn well hit as hard as you can. The punch of your life is what we call it.
Also in street application I have to assess the situation. I have to know myself and have that control so that when I am scared I’m not destroying my attacker. Subdue, yes. Kill, no. Of course there are hundreds of situations and all of them are different. That is why it is important to practice both. I don’t want to destroy a man that’s starving and holding me up to get money for his family cause he isn’t a threat, I’d end up helping that guy anyway. But you have the other extreme where they have a knife or a gun and have intent to do me or mine harm, well I’m going to put the hurt on them
If you are attacked!!! getting out of your car, at an ATM or jumped and grabbed, you DO NOT have time to ASSESS the situation. For reality based Self Defense you need to be ready to turn that switch on NOW. Also, how can someone holding you up not be a threat? I don’t care his reason for holding me up, he has made a mistake, and it you don’t react your dead. I think what you where looking for is to be aware and if I can avoid the situation I will. Truly being attacked means no time to assess.
You brought up that there are many different scenarios, so it’s hard to make a blanket statement, but this is how I feel about those quotes.
What you have described is what we call Pachivas Pancration or full contact fighting for my system.
We just had two fighters compete in a Pancreation Tournament.
Not every strike/kick you throw in a fight, whether in the ring or on the streets, needs to be hard.
The ring ok, but the street? If you are attacked in the streets you better damn well hit as hard as you can. The punch of your life is what we call it.
Also in street application I have to assess the situation. I have to know myself and have that control so that when I am scared I’m not destroying my attacker. Subdue, yes. Kill, no. Of course there are hundreds of situations and all of them are different. That is why it is important to practice both. I don’t want to destroy a man that’s starving and holding me up to get money for his family cause he isn’t a threat, I’d end up helping that guy anyway. But you have the other extreme where they have a knife or a gun and have intent to do me or mine harm, well I’m going to put the hurt on them
If you are attacked!!! getting out of your car, at an ATM or jumped and grabbed, you DO NOT have time to ASSESS the situation. For reality based Self Defense you need to be ready to turn that switch on NOW. Also, how can someone holding you up not be a threat? I don’t care his reason for holding me up, he has made a mistake, and it you don’t react your dead. I think what you where looking for is to be aware and if I can avoid the situation I will. Truly being attacked means no time to assess.
You brought up that there are many different scenarios, so it’s hard to make a blanket statement, but this is how I feel about those quotes.
Like I said, hundreds of different scenarios. My point being a light strike has it’s merits. Of course if someone jumps me and I don’t have time to size up the situation I’m going to land one on them that they will have trouble getting back up from. I agree with what you’re saying. I’m just trying to point out the merits of a light strike in SOME situations. And the merits of point sparring in teaching control and speed. Again this is the difference in our systems too (mine being a mix of Shuri Ryu, Shuri Te, and Shorinji Kempo).
Any of your students reading my post, while I believe have some merit in some situations, need to listen first and foremost to their instructors and do as they instruct.
PS My system spends most of it’s time in full contact situations, point sparring is just a tool we use.
Like I said, hundreds of different scenarios. My point being a light strike has it’s merits. Of course if someone jumps me and I don’t have time to size up the situation I’m going to land one on them that they will have trouble getting back up from. I agree with what you’re saying. I’m just trying to point out the merits of a light strike in SOME situations. And the merits of point sparring in teaching control and speed. Again this is the difference in our systems too (mine being a mix of Shuri Ryu, Shuri Te, and Shorinji Kempo).
Any of your students reading my post, while I believe have some merit in some situations, need to listen first and foremost to their instructors and do as they instruct.
PS My system spends most of it’s time in full contact situations, point sparring is just a tool we use.
I understand what you are saying. We can just agree to disagree. One thing I would like to point out is we do train is that if someone wants our money, car,wallet, etc. then I will hand over these things as they are just things. But I will fight from being taken away with my car or wallet.
I have been out of the training loop for over eight years now, and am now only two weeks into a 2-a-week class.
Obviously, I’m not someone to go to for for answers here, but I think my opinion as a new student has merit, nonetheless.
I hurt right now. Not badly, but as a previous poster mentioned I have been hit hard enough to remember it (then and now).
No head gear today, and I did get my bell rung one time a little harder than I think was right by one of the very advanced fighters. I walked into it, but I don’t want to spar with him for a while. I did however, learn an invaluable lesson about hand placement that I will probably never forget.
That said, I don’t think hitting hard all the time is beneficial.
I learn how to block going slow (10%). I learn why to block going fast(70%).
One thing I would like to point out is we do train is that if someone wants our money, car,wallet, etc. then I will hand over these things as they are just things. But I will fight from being taken away with my car or wallet.
