3 of 3
3
Trend in the Crossfit Games
Posted: 05 March 2010 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7674
Joined  2004-08-09

yay! I win.

I got killed in the 2008 games. I would never have qualified for 2009 and I think I’ve been disqualified from watching any of the 2010 competions because I still don’t have a sub 5 fran.

 Signature 

We have too many heroes lost and not enough workout days to commemorate them. I think it’s fitting to always think of the men and women in service, whether military or peace officers and public safety, as we do our workouts. A bit of motivation to throw a little of our sweat and maybe a drop of blood on the floor in their honor.

http://laurarcrossfit.blogspot.com

There is no substitute for good coaching.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 March 2010 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7674
Joined  2004-08-09

And seriously, because of the explosion of participation I understand the need to qualify people and then have the best of the best compete in a narrowed field, but I say have the same format for the sectionals, regionals and finals. That’s how pretty much every other sports competition is run, isn’t it?

 Signature 

We have too many heroes lost and not enough workout days to commemorate them. I think it’s fitting to always think of the men and women in service, whether military or peace officers and public safety, as we do our workouts. A bit of motivation to throw a little of our sweat and maybe a drop of blood on the floor in their honor.

http://laurarcrossfit.blogspot.com

There is no substitute for good coaching.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 March 2010 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Top Dawg
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1101
Joined  2009-06-02

I find this thread to be a very insightful read and very humbling since I know next to nothing about CF competitions. That being said, I have a noob question (sorry for asking): are sectionals sponsored by CFHQ but run and hosted by a group of affiliates given certain guidelines by HQ on what to test?

 Signature 

21/5’9”/162
Sisu
Double unders are stupid unless:
1. You have no other holes in your fitness
2. You plan on competing
- Garddawg

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 March 2010 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7674
Joined  2004-08-09

I don’t know the details of it but my understanding is this:

smaller area based Sectionals winners—> larger geographically based Regionals which I believe to be put together and managed by groups of affiliates and sanctioned by CFHQ.

Finals, run by CFHQ, supported and judged by selected Affilliates?

 Signature 

We have too many heroes lost and not enough workout days to commemorate them. I think it’s fitting to always think of the men and women in service, whether military or peace officers and public safety, as we do our workouts. A bit of motivation to throw a little of our sweat and maybe a drop of blood on the floor in their honor.

http://laurarcrossfit.blogspot.com

There is no substitute for good coaching.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 March 2010 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Top Dawg
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2219
Joined  2007-05-06
LincolnB - 05 March 2010 02:05 PM

Yes, the question is this: Should a serious deficiency in one area amount to a DQ or merely a penalty? How big of a penalty? In Khalipa’s case his flexibility problems resulted in neither a DQ nor a penalty, but his endurance deficiency cost him the championship. On the other hand, finishing 3rd to last in the endurance event did not prevent him from finishing 5th overall. Annie’s lack of skill also ultimately cost her—the question is was the penalty appropriate? It would seem so in her case.

I’m a bit late to this party, but here’s my $0.02

Khalipa’s deficiency could be categorized in the “knowable” domain, the same is true of Annie.  An extended event in the oxidative domain can and does come up on the main page, even if infrequently.  Remember the “Run 15k” wod?  (Personally, I thought it was a typo.)  If Annie would have been able to do muscle ups, she might have won the games.  The fact that Annie couldn’t do them cost her an appropriate penalty.  Muscle ups are something that every serious CrossFitter seeks.  Winning the games without the ability to do a muscle up would have brought up some serious questions.

A serious deficiency in one of the ten physical skills, specifically coordination, cost me a DNF at the GSQ.  This was exposed by a twist on a movement which I have done at least a hundred times.  Mike G programmed wall balls with a ball that can (and does) change its center of gravity from rep to rep.  I couldn’t adapt.  I am basically uncoordinated and he found a way to expose it, whether by design or accident.  I can learn skills with practice, but in the end, my natural athletic ability is/was lacking.

The GSQ had as close to Olympic standard snatch (no press out) as I’ve seen in a metcon. (or any CrossFit contest fot that matter) Anyway, having this standard in a metcon probably merits its own discussion since it eliminated quite a few people, but it was “knowable” since snatch comes up periodically.  It can and should be a skill that a serious CrossFitter has.  Those who couldn’t properly snatch a relatively light weight (115#) were eliminated, justifiably so.

I identified my weaknesses before sectionals based on my results in what I called a ‘qual wod challenge’ which I did for few months before I started training for the games.  I identified weaknesses that the qual wods exposed and then worked with the most qualified coach I could ever hope to find, and made significant progress in every area that I’d identified, but it was the ‘unknowable’ that ultimately cost me.

Mike G said that he didn’t want to program anyone out of his competition and announced that he would exclude certain movements:
“The overall goal of this event is to qualify the best 30 athletes for the SE CrossFit Regionals. In doing so, we have decided to exclude certain movements and loads from our event (e.g., the muscle up). This does not mean that you will not come across these at Regionals, so it is important that you keep training these movements. So, get back on those rings and lift some heavy weights”

Given that, if we don’t see muscle ups, heavy loads and handstand press ups at the Dirty South regional, I think the qual process will have failed.

I think that the GSQ was a complete success and could easily answer the question “What is CrossFit?”  It clearly adressed “broad time and modal domains” and the ten elements of fitness: 

The first event was highly oxidative - 1000m row + a 1.2 mile run up a ~900 vertical feet transition.  About as close as you could get expect to get to the Aromas hill run in ATL, GA.  It taxed the legs and the lungs heavily.  I would say that it effectively tested the cardio endurance, coordination, agility and balance.  Running up the hill sucked. it was steep, uneven, rocky and unforgiving.

The second event tested the ability to recover from the first event and tested your hip capacity in a very clever longish metcon (17:00 cap) where nearly every element required that you generate power from the hips. It had a couple elements that significantly thinned the pack.  I mentioned both already - wallballs with a ball whose CG changed and “strict” snatches.  It tested stamina, flexibility, power and coordination.

The third event was complementary to the others.  In 10:00, establish a 1RM ground to overhead, any way.  This required both skill and strength, but it was completely in the ATP (ME) domain.  it did a great job of testing strength, power and coordination (if you think C&J addresses these)

The last event was a “WG” couplet of pain in the familiar 21-15-9 format. A short painful metcon of thrusters and burpees.  I can’t think of a more painful pair right now.  Don’t believe me? Try it.  Then add a muscular endurance test immediately following it. 30 DL @ 225

Given the 4 eventss, I think that the GSQ did a pretty good job of answering yes to:
Do they meet Crossfit’s 1st standard of fitness, the 10 generally recognized physical skills of cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy? Are any being missed? Are some being given more weight than others? Are any being skipped?

How about Crossfit’s 2nd standard of fitness, performing well at any and every task imaginable? (i.e. the hopper model) For example, is the GHD event a good “task” to measure?
How about the 3rd standard of fitness, the three metabolic pathways?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 March 2010 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  851
Joined  2005-05-16

Looking at the rest of the sectionals, apparently doing several short metcons per day obviates the need to do any traditional long endurance event testing at all. And it takes at least three metcon events to figure out who is the best at metcon events. I guess rhabdo is not a concern either, because hey everyone has to sign a waiver.

If I were King there’d be just three events total. There’d be a shot-put event, a Painstorm chipper, and a half-mile swim. Then we’d go have beers and give mouth-to-mouth to the non-swimmers.

 Signature 

Lincoln Brigham
USAW, CSCS, Crossfit

http://www.gryphon-sc.com
51M/6’1”/170-ish

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 March 2010 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Top Dawg
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2219
Joined  2007-05-06

I thought the FL sectionals looked mostly balanced too.  2 metcons, a 1RM event and a monostructural event. I thought it was interesting that they put the monostructural event at the end instead of first. I also LOVED their pullup standards. chin must cross the vertical AND horizontal plane of the bar…. bu bye butterfly!

other than that, I agree with you. And Hawaii just looks extra stupid.  I’m glad I don’t live there.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 March 2010 11:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8080
Joined  2007-01-08

If they’re the metcon games how come Spealer didn’t make day two?
How come other metcon stand-outs were complaining that it was biased towards the stronger competitors?

If the games are overloading the competitors how come the competitors are on video saying that previous games, and especially the first one, weren’t a test of true fitness?

If that’s what the people doing it are saying, who should the organisers listen to?

Why can’t a metcon be a test of strength?

 Signature 

Craig Massey


“The point of CF is to get better at life.  Being unable to workout tomorrow because you were pigheaded today is not in line with our goals.”
Garddawg - 22 March 2009

“CrossFit is not dangerous.
Bad coaching is dangerous, poor movement is dangerous. Ego is dangerous.
CrossFit, properly scaled to the individual is the safest and most efficient program available”
BlueBugofJustice - 18 August 2009

http://metricsmusings.blogspot.com/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2948
Joined  2008-04-08
Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

If they’re the MetCon games how come Spealer didn’t make day two?

Good point.  I don’t know.  Deadlift event combined with Sledge Row event?
But note that the argument isn’t exactly that the 2009 games were already “the MetCon games”, but that they, along with the current qualifiers, may indicate the start of a trend in that direction.

Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

How come other MetCon stand-outs were complaining that it was biased towards the stronger competitors?

This is another good point. 

Although, I don’t think this is necessarily just a MetCon vs. Strength issue.  We were also discussing skill requirement and other components of fitness like accuracy, etc.  Strength may have been more heavily relied upon in 2009, but the skill requirement was still fairly low.  It could have been increase by requiring strict snatches, for example.

At the same time, I think when we are talking about “MetCon Standouts” we are really talking about “Bodyweight MetCon Standouts” whose advantage quickly diminish with the addition of any moderate external load.  Most (all?) of the MetCons in the games so far have had a moderate or heavy-ish load or increased ROM, so in that respect I would agree that we have really yet to see an event at the games that truly allows those athletes to shine.

This may have something to do with the difficulty in judging some of those movements.  Trying to ensure every air squat of a competitor comes to full hip extension from full depth, or that every push-up retains the plank and goes from chest-on-deck to full lock out, at the speed at which those guys can move, becomes a logistics issue.

Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

If the games are overloading the competitors how come the competitors are on video saying that previous games, and especially the first one, weren’t a test of true fitness?

Games organizers are not going to spend a lot of time publicizing the competitors that thought that these games were too long.  Given that, no matter what changes are made to the games, there will be vocal participants saying it is an improvement.  I’d say those folks would get the camera time.

Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

If that’s what the people doing it are saying, who should the organizers listen to?

You are right.  The competitors are likely the best people to pay attention to, but I seem to remember a lot of those people recounting how horrible their recovery was from 2009.

So you’ve got both sides, those who like the increased demand and those who were smashed for 3 weeks after… in the end, it depends what you value more.

Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

Why can’t a MetCon be a test of strength?

In a sense, it can be and is. 

But I think you would have a hard time arguing that the middle of a MetCon is the best place to for well developed form, body control, power, and strength to be expressed in a single movement.  I am of the opinion that heavy MetCon rewards the genetically gifted buffalo with vast work capacity than it does the well-trained technician.

You could argue that you want to test those things under fatigue, but there are numerous sports and life situations which demand maximal skill in a fresh state.  Whether or not we want to test that in our games (the true test of fitness) is really the question.

 Signature 

28/m/6’2”/215/BF8.9%
CrossFit Birth: April 8, 2008 (BW 245)

“Performance is directly correlated with intensity. Intensity is directly correlated with discomfort.” -Coach Glassman
“Get Comfortable with Uncomfortable.” -Coach OPT

-||||———||||-
“Machines were invented to keep wankers off the barbells.” -Greg Everett

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  851
Joined  2005-05-16

Why can’t a metcon be a test of strength?

It’s not a true test of strength or power when you are exhausted and worn out. Note that the intent of the deadlift event at last year’s Games was to have sub-par performances after the run. (Whoops, that backfired.) Note the snatch results at last year’s games; kind of weak sauce, especially considering the super relaxed rules.

As for Speal, there’s a limit to how far you can get weighing a buck thirty five.

The Florida sectional has two metcons that test nearly the exact same metabolic pathway. Why? With so many aspects of fitness that could be and need to be tested, why have one event that lasts eight minutes and then follow it up with another that lasts eleven? And then not do any events at all that last more than a half-hour? Two metcons in the same time domain is an unecessary beatdown. I don’t see any monostructural event either. Muscular endurance is not tested much beyond the 8 minute mark in hardly any of the sectionals, which enduranc athletes would consider a major omission. David Beckham has to go go go for 45 minutes at a time, why not Crossfitters? Lance Armstrong doesn’t get a rest break every half-hour.

A vast majority of the Sectionals events look like 5-10 minute Strongman medleys. They’re rehashed variations of Helen and Fran, over and over. There’s a certain sameness to them instead of a broad variation. Sure, metcons are important and entertaining (in the MMA beatdown sense of entertainment) but still…

I like the idea of the Hawaiian tests of skill, but overall there’s still too much volume and duplication in the weekend. Does anybody read the rhabdo warnings put out by HQ? I think the Hawaiian sectionals could have dumped one of the shorter metcons and one of the skill sessions without changing the results much at all. That would have left time and energy for something else. How about a throwing event? Or a 150 meter dash? Notice that peak speed is not measured very often in the sectionals. Cheers to the Alaska sectionals for measuring vertical jump, though.

 Signature 

Lincoln Brigham
USAW, CSCS, Crossfit

http://www.gryphon-sc.com
51M/6’1”/170-ish

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  851
Joined  2005-05-16

I’ve got to say I think the PA/MD/DE Sectionals are more on-task than many of the others. They’ve got just three events - a 3-minute event, a 10-minute event, and a 20-minute event. I wouldn’t mind seeing a 1-minute event, a 10-minute event and a 45-minute event instead, but still it’s way better than the other sectionals. It will do a decent job at finding the best overall athletes and it won’t kill people in the process.

 Signature 

Lincoln Brigham
USAW, CSCS, Crossfit

http://www.gryphon-sc.com
51M/6’1”/170-ish

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Big Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  454
Joined  2009-03-13
LincolnB - 12 March 2010 11:48 AM

I’ve got to say I think the PA/MD/DE Sectionals are more on-task than many of the others. They’ve got just three events - a 3-minute event, a 10-minute event, and a 20-minute event. I wouldn’t mind seeing a 1-minute event, a 10-minute event and a 45-minute event instead, but still it’s way better than the other sectionals. It will do a decent job at finding the best overall athletes and it won’t kill people in the process.

Linc:

What would you propose for the longer/endurance event…say 45min to 1 hour?

What about a 5k?  You could do that one as a stand along event, or even throw in something along the way…like every mile you have to do 15 burpees and/or pushups.

 Signature 

What if the hokey-pokey IS what it’s all about?

“The point of CF is to get better at life.  Being unable to workout tomorrow because you were pigheaded today is not in line with our goals.“
Garddawg - 22 March 2009

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  851
Joined  2005-05-16

I think a 5k run is a little too short.  Endurance athletes think of a 20-minute event as a sprint.

A quasi-obstacle course or steeplechase would work for the longer event. Or heck, a straight 10k or 15k run, not unlike the 7k hill run at the last Games. Sometimes the obvious is overlooked.

You might be able to do some sort of an interval run, simulating the amount of running involved in a soccer game or a basketball game. Off the top of my head, how about run for 30 seconds, 2 burpees and rest during the next 30 seconds, repeat for 40 rounds? You’d need a track and a whistle and that’s it. Something like that. Furthest distance covered wins.

It all depends on what you can manage logistically and creatively. A swim/run combo would be awesome if there was a pool available, let the non-swimmers wear lifevests. How about a 10 mile hike with a weighted backpack?

 Signature 

Lincoln Brigham
USAW, CSCS, Crossfit

http://www.gryphon-sc.com
51M/6’1”/170-ish

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 March 2010 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Top Dawg
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3096
Joined  2007-03-26
Metric - 11 March 2010 11:02 PM

If they’re the metcon games how come Spealer didn’t make day two?
How come other metcon stand-outs were complaining that it was biased towards the stronger competitors?

Where are you reading that you found these? I’m so far behind ...

 Signature 

“Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a Ride!’” -Peter Sage

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 3
3